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Bible Questions and Spiritual Discussion
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Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.
Eze 36:27 And I will put My Spirit in you so that you will follow My decrees and be careful to obey My regulations.
| Is this an important question?
I don't know...
| I think it's an interesting question and it's important enough to Craig that he asked it. (Which makes it important to me.) I wish I had more of an answer though.
| I think it's an interesting question and it's important enough to Craig that he asked it. (Which makes it important to me.) I wish I had more of an answer though. I picture, Craig, the Holy Spirit being BOTH an immediate change and a sanctification process. The Bible calls it a seed that is planted and grows into a mighty tree. It's like an infusion of new DNA. Suddenly a whole different kind of life is possible, but it still has to reprogram and rebuild cell by cell. Tell me if I'm still missing the point cuz I want to understand.
| We are currently doing a study called "The Truth Project" which is done by Focus on the Family. In the section called "Who Is Man?" there is a print-out on dichotomy and trichotomy. I will post some of it here.
Strongest argument for trichotomy in the following passages, the argument being that if the Scripture uses different words to describe the essence of man's nature, then they must be distinctly different parts:
"I will speak out in the anguish of my SPIRIT, I will complain in the bitterness of my SOUL. (Job 7:11)
My SOUL yearns for you in the night; in the morning my SPIRIT longs for you. (Isaiah 26:9)
May your whole SPIRIT, SOUL and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing SOUL and SPIRIT, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
Dichotomy rests primarily upon the argument that the Scripture uses soul and spirit interchangeably and synonymously. For example, Scripture refers to those who have already died as either "souls" or "spirits." (Revelation 6:9, Hebrews 12:23, Revelation 20:4, 1 Peter 3:19, 1 Corinthians 5:5, Genesis 3:18, John 19:30, Acts 7:59, 1 Kings 17:21, James 2:26, Ecclesiastes 12:7)
The dichotomist would respond to the first two trichotomy verses by saying the terms are used interchangeably to bring forth an emphasis. The second two are a bit more difficult. His explanation is a literary use of these synonyms to emphasize the totality of spiritual being (spirit, soul) and physical being (body, joints, marrow).
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Thanks for that resource Marci. I think that my belief in dichotomy is formed because "spirit and soul" are used interchangeably and synonymously in general discussion and (as the author pointed out). But I am moving towards the idea that we are a trichotomy. KELLEY - I agree that the Holy Spirit's work is both immediate and a lifelong process too. Thanks for sticking with me on this thread.
It's important to me that I understand what God is doing in my spirit & soul. Here are just a few questions that have surfaced since pondering the foundational question of "what are we made of?"
1) Is it my soul that is changing or is it my spirit that is changing? (or both?)
2) Do I have 4 parts, (body, soul, spirit and Holy Spirit)?
3) Why do people ask for the Holy Spirit to "come down like rain" or "manifest in us" (like at an IHOP service) when they are already Christians and should have the Holy Spirit in them consistently? Are they saying that the HS left for a while and they are void of any part of Christ for the moment?
4) Can the Holy Spirit come and go from me without notice or reason and on a daily basis? IF YES - what are we made of then?
5) Was my soul created from the physical union of my parents? Was my spirit and/or soul created by God? Which part contains the inherited sin from Adam? If God created one or both, how did either one become inheritabley sinful?
Trying to comprehend spirits and souls is leading me down a rabbit hole. I'm not quite ready to crawl out and ignore it!
Craig
| Hey Craig,
Just at work now, not much time to respond.
Not sure if you saw my response to your post over in the Menn's Forums (a couple of days back; have a look).
In light of what you are now posting, I am going to again urge you to take up the recommended reading I posted on there, as the book and author deal quite robustly with items and concepts you are discussing (to those reading along on THIS thread, my referrence is re: "Renovation Of The Heart," by Dallas Willard).
... and re: "3) Why do people ask for the Holy Spirit to "come down like rain" or "manifest in us" (like at an IHOP service) when they are already Christians and should have the Holy Spirit in them consistently? Are they saying that the HS left for a while and they are void of any part of Christ for the moment?" there are Christian movments that ask God for a "filling of the Spirit," or "an annointing from God." There are some debates and stances on this sort of thing (as with the "Toronto Airport Movement"); have a look online or whatever, when you have time to do a search).
Hugs, man,
Tom
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Tom - Thanks for the reminder Tom of the D. Willard book.
Well, pointing me to the "Toronto Airport Movement" led me to the "Latter Rain doctrine" that led me to the "Five Fold Ministry" that led to the "Kansas City Prophets" that led me to IHOP that led me back to Mike Bickle. That is where this thread got started with Mike's presumption that trichotomy is "pretty fundamental knowledge here folks".
I'm not sure what I've learned here this week, so I'll go back to listening to the Bible.
Harty handshake, man!
| Wow, quite a week. Some of that would throw me for a loop too. Christianity sure runs the gamut.
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Yes Kelly - This has been a very active week for debate and conversation! I should point out that I didn't mean to connect the "Toronto AM" with Mike Bickle directly as it seems in my post. Bickle and I may have 7 degrees of separation too, along with Kevin Bacon!
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